Curse

dgb · Jun 02, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Not if diversion disables the inspired hex that is being used to try and remove it. From what I remember, diversion will whack inspired to +50s recharge and be gone, and inspired will swish through empty air.

Of course that assumes diversion is the only hex on you and therefore inspired has nothing to remove and eats + recharge. If you have another hex inspired can take off, then youll get the standard 20s other skill. I think.

This is correct. Inspired needs to change into a hex to avoid the diversion.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 02, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

I'm pretty sure running against a "hex heavy build" like Hella suggested we could find ourselves another hex.

Beat_Go_Stick · Jun 02, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Hey Avarre,

You are (without a doubt) a better overall Mesmer than I since it's probably in my 2nd or 3rd least used slot. I would be curious to see you run your standard E-denial build for a while with the one change of using AL in the place of your elite skill. Maybe tweak Fast Casting so it lasts longer, but basically just Random/Team Arena it a bit and use it like you would a second Diversion that only works on casters.

I know my team build works (and I couldn't get a anyone to help me test out Equinox last night because my friends suck

) but I would think that even just the combination of AL, Diversion, and standard e-denial would be a devastating combination. Even with a medium-high rank in Fast Cast and a high rank in Dom, that's around 12 seconds of severe harassment right there where the enemy can either choose exhaustion or a darkened skill for a minute.

You seem to have significant skill using Mesmer in PvP from the sound of your posts...give it a try and let us know what you think

-Billy

Siren · Jun 02, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

An inspired on each monk. Augmenting energy and hex removal.

Congrats. You remove one hex and then you've got your Monks waiting at least 20 seconds to remove another.

Quote:

A remove hex on a mesmer with MoR.

You really need a recharge shorter than 7 seconds? Why bring Mantra of Recovery?

Quote:

A veil on an emo - maintained nature synergises well with running.

If your Emo is a flaggot...whom are they maintaing veil on? Themselves? Yeah. Self hex removal there man.

Quote:

There you go, four characters, all with viable hex removals. That's not counting the potential of CoP on the monks

It's not that viable.

You're disabling your Monk's team hex removal for at least 20 seconds each time they use it.

Your Mesmer is blowing an Elite slot on MoR...and I should hope their skill bar actually necessitates using MoR. Otherwise, that hex removal is even worse than I thought.

The Emo's hex removal is severely limited by range--especially if they're the flaggot.

Quote:

And why exactly is Holy Veil a CoP like self hex removal only?

Is your Emo really able to remove hexes on your team mates, or is he or she often either too far out of range to cast it? And for that matter, consider when the battle is a bit too far from the flagstand for maintained enchants. When the Emo goes to recap the flagstand, what's going to happen? Holy Veil is going to vanish due to the distance.

You want to know why Holy Veil is a CoP-like self hex removal? It can barely do jackshit if you use it on teammates. Especially if the character carrying Holy Veil will very often be having to maintain it on multiple characters, as well as themselves for when they have to be a flaggot.

You posted your four characters, with what hex removal they've got and sure enough...it's total crap, just like I expected. lol

frickaline · Jun 02, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

seems like langor could be good on a WoH monk if you can cover well and perhaps drain/shatter enchant first.

Could also be pretty funny on a shock warrior or a hands/breeze wammo ... xD

Or a touch ranger ... hahahhahahhahahaha *ahem*

I havent tried it but it seems like its probably got uses.

Themis · Jun 02, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

Or a touch ranger ... hahahhahahhahahaha *ahem*

Excellent !!!

Pity they're skills....

Beat_Go_Stick · Jun 02, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Touch Ranger uses skills, not spells

Anyone test what AL does to skills that already cause exhaustion? I'd guess nothing based on the skill description but you never know in Guild Wars until you try it :P

frickaline · Jun 02, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

yeah but some of those marked as skills STILL fall victim to backfire for some reason (either wallow or agony or perhaps both ... both if I remember rightly)

and oob .... and life siphon ....

Hella Good · Jun 02, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

EDIT: And Hella, how freakish is it that we're agreeing on something? It's only happened what, once before? lol

I carefully skipped your post to avoid confrontation but got caught on this line, so I went back and reread it.

Shackwrack still owns Assassins, tho!

But yea, I do agree with Avarre:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Blessed Light and Expel hexes, the two elites you mentioned, are very viable and used already in some builds, expel on a mesmer, blessed on a blessed light monk.

However, same way even the most hardcore anti-ench skill (Order of Apostasy that is) can't destroy a mass enchant build, neither Expell Hexes, nor Blessed Light will destroy a hex heavy build. They sure will make it hell of a lot harder but nothing to really sweat about. A single Necro Hex Master can pretty much overwhelm the whole hex management of a team (Suffering and Shadow of Fear are pretty effective hex remover disablers).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

Pity they're skills....

*chuckles* we've all been there.

frickaline · Jun 03, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

heh you guys need to double check....

they may SAY skills but it doesnt mean they behave as such ^^

I know for a fact some of those "skills" can be backfired, I tested it in skirmish with a guildie. I imagine they can be langored as well tho I havent tried that yet.

Go try it and let us know

Hella Good · Jun 03, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

I have played a touch rangers and have had people backfire me. It does nothing...

frickaline · Jun 03, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

It only worked on 2 out of the 4 skills they use. you might not use those 2. Plus, you might not even notice, since you will heal right through it.

Its not to say that my guildie couldnt have been mistaken about it when I backfired him in that skirmish, but ...... If you havent tested it specifically, you havent checked. ^^

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Funny skill that really kills touch rangers is blackout...of course no one carries that though.

Sab · Jun 03, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Funny skill that really kills touch rangers is blackout...of course no one carries that though.

Speaking of which, so does Diversion.

BaconSoda · Jun 03, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Now why are we diverting back into the diversion v.s. blackout arguement. I beleive we came to the conclusion that both are viable and went on with Languor arguements...

Avarre · Jun 03, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

However, same way even the most hardcore anti-ench skill (Order of Apostasy that is) can't destroy a mass enchant build, neither Expell Hexes, nor Blessed Light will destroy a hex heavy build. They sure will make it hell of a lot harder but nothing to really sweat about. A single Necro Hex Master can pretty much overwhelm the whole hex management of a team (Suffering and Shadow of Fear are pretty effective hex remover disablers).

Suffering and Shadow of fear can be ignored if there are more dangerous hexes. Once one of those goes up, a quick expel and it's not there anymore. If the enemy piles hexes, and you have convert on a char...

Remove hex is often brought on mesmers (more likely to be expel now though), and MoR helps with the recharge but that's not the purpose of it, the purpose is for spells like diversion and shame. Nice that you ignored me though, Siren, I posted more than 4 possibilities that are viable.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Expel hexes is now the "anti-hex" and I suspect alot of mesmers to be running that now; and it will greatly destroy hex based builds plowing right through them-covers and all.

I mentioned blackout because touch rangers have to "touch" you; therefore one of blackout's key disadvantages is voided. By no means do I want to get into a bo vs diversion arguement again; had my fair share of those this month anyway. For those wishing to do that just read another thread; there are tons of them.

Hella Good · Jun 03, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Expell Hexes is definitely something to keep in mind. It has a tremendous power to destroy hex/cover hex combos. However, in a hex heavy build (with a min of 10-12 different hexes being constantly spread around), Expell Hexes won't have as much of an impact.

Expell Hexes can't stop a Necro spamming Life Siphon/Faintheartedness/Parasitic Bond/Suffering under OoB- the ability of such a build to quickly recover lost hexes and sustain itself over time is simply too much for Expell Hexes to handle. And Convert Hexes is a ridiculous skill. I'm srry to say so but it is- waste of nrg, horrible recharge, plus for a Hex Master it doesn't matter if 1 target gets converted- he spams hexes all over the enemy team covering multiple targets with multiple layers of hexes very rapidly. The cumulative effect of a Hex Master is what matters- provides massive party-wide degen and overwhelms enermy hex management, so important hexes can be used where necessary w/o worrying about hex removal and the likes.

And it is extremely unlikely that anyone will actually keep track of what hex goes where. I have noticed for example that monks aim for hexes that turn the whole bar purple (degen hexes). It's a psychological thing- makes the hex look dangerous. Parasitic Bond is among other things a great fake hex to use on a target, so that Monks exhaust their anti-hex options.

I'm a great fan of hexes- I thoroughly enjoy playing any hex build (cept Diversion btw, I need my target to wriggle in hex pain not simply suffer :-)) and I can tell you there is tricks of the trade. I am by no means neglecting hex management. The point that I am making is:

Much like Migraine, Arcane Languor is most likely to find a place in a hex heavy build.

That's all. You won't see it tossed in an energy denial build (like Diversion frequently is), because it's an elite (and among other things this makes fast recharge and chaining much harder) and it requires heavy hex back-up.

Siren · Jun 03, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaconSoda

Now why are we diverting back into the diversion v.s. blackout arguement. I beleive we came to the conclusion that both are viable and went on with Languor arguements...

Because we can't blackout into the Diversion vs Blackout argument?

...sorry. I can't resist lame puns. >_>

Though Arcane Languor will be used in hex-heavy builds, I can see it still being used in e-denial, particularly if the player is able to work a hex-heavy e-denial build. I have a feeling it's definitely possible. Probably fool around with it later today.

frickaline · Jun 03, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

edit: ok ... not only am I an idiot but my guildie is a moron also. When we tested this,at a dead standstill in a 2 person skirmish, he thought that the life sac he took from those skills was the backfire dmg. Apparently he didn't look for the "backfire" dmg message you get on your screen. So as Gilda Radner would say .... nevermind!

But I tried out langor just a little bit yesterday and felt that it still didn't last long enough. If you think about it it lasts not much longer than diversion but with a little exhaustion as a consequence rather than a skill loss.

I just seems like people will just wait for it to time out if someone can't remove it from them, or perhaps cast if they really need to. Way too many options out of it ...